99. Making Time for Joy, Creativity & Connect with Rita Alma
In this episode we’re joined by Rita Alma (leadership coach, conflict mediator, equity, diversity, and inclusion (EDI) practitioner and facilitator) who shares her story of making time for joy, creativity and connection outside of work, as a way to balance the hard and heavy.
We chat about:
What inspired Rita to prioritize joy and creativity in her schedule
Trying new things, making friends and creating community as an adult
How creative spaces allow us to connect to one another
The role of dance and singing in Rita’s confidence journey
TODAY'S GUEST
Want to connect with today's guest Rita Alma? Find her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritaalma
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GET IN TOUCH
Did this episode spark an interesting reflection or a question stirring in your heart? I love hearing from you!
Instagram: @meghanljohnston
Email: hello@meghanjohnston.com
Website: meghanjohnston.com
Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] You're listening to episode 99 of With Heart and Wonder. In just a moment. I am going to tell you all about today's incredible guest. But first we are fast approaching episode 100 and I would just [00:01:00] love to know I want to open it up and if you have any favorite moments from the podcast, whether you've listened to one episode or all, almost 100 of them, I would love for you to share that with me.
I I'm thinking of. Of bringing these end to this special episode that I will be sharing in just a few weeks to mark a hundred episodes of the podcast. Um, so please do reach out. hello@meganjohnson.com or on Instagram @meghanljohnston now, today's guest.
I am so, so excited. to share this conversation with you today? And it came about because, um, I was on LinkedIn one day. You'll hear me tell this story. In in the interview itself, but, and I saw this post from the lovely Rita. Where she was talking about making space for creativity and joy in her life.
And it just really resonated. I'm gonna read, [00:02:00] you Rita's official bio, but really in our conversation today, it's more about the ways in which she's creating time and space outside of work. To really fulfill and create these connections with herself, with her spirituality, with community. It's such a beautiful conversation. Rita is a certified leadership coach, conflict mediator, equity, diversity, and inclusion practitioner, and facilitator who guides organizations and their leaders to foster positive and sustainable systemic change. She is guided by her belief in the infinite power of human relationships and her mission to put the skills of collective leadership and cross cultural collaboration into the hands of as many people as possible. Rita has spent the last 15 years immersed in anti-oppressive work and facilitating conflict transformation, collective healing, and [00:03:00] elevating organizational processes by supporting dozens of grassroots community groups, not for profits and private sector companies. Her facilitation style is highly interactive and designed to enhance trust amongst the group, neutralize inequitable power dynamics, and include all voices in generating resolutions that honor participants as experts in their own fields and lives. Let's jump in to this conversation today with Rita.
Meghan: Rita, I am so excited to have you here today with us. I have been just buzzing with all of the excitement for this conversation. And, I'm just gonna like tell everyone. So this conversation came about sort of beautifully. You posted something on LinkedIn and to be honest, I'm never on LinkedIn.
I, I was on LinkedIn. It felt like divine timing. I saw the post and it just so deeply [00:04:00] resonated with me and my beliefs and my values. I know when we tell you about it, it'll, it'll come as no surprise if you're a long time listener. Um, but let's just start us off today. tell us about this post and, and what inspired you to put that out into the world?
Rita: Yeah, I'm so excited to talk about this. I decided for several reasons to put out into the LinkedIn space, which is more mostly about professional happenings, um, that I wanted to share about some of the hobbies and joy that I've been having in my life that I intentionally cultivated to support the work that I'm doing in my professional life. So, I posted about, um, the fact that I sing in a Motown band in Ottawa, and I have started dancing salsa, bachata, kizomba, and hustle over the last year and a half. I believe I also mentioned that I'm doing boxing [00:05:00] classes, um, Probably a couple other things, but I wanted to kind of showcase a side of me that people on my LinkedIn profile may not always get to see.
I mean, if they also know me personally, they're seeing that all the time because my social media personally is I'm constantly uploading dance videos and singing videos and boxing, and so people are very aware and I've gotten a lot of comments and feedback and people from in, from people in my life about.
Yeah, just how I have managed to figure out, at least from what they can see, centering joy and fun in my life. And I know that that's not always what we're good at in professional capacities, especially for people like me who, really like have their heart into their work and There's there's so much work to do in terms of bettering the world in whatever capacity you may be [00:06:00] doing that work and so you tend to just go all in on that and I really thought about and realized over the years that, um, having an energizing, inspiring, life giving life outside of my professional work, you know, balances out, but also feeds into my ability to be my best self and bring my best thinking into my professional world.
So that was, A little bit of what inspired that.
Meghan: I'm wondering, just like for context, can you bring us back to two and a half years ago, when it sounds like you made kind of an intentional choice that you were going to be carving out some more time for joy and fun and creativity, what was it that led you to that decision or that inner knowing?
Rita: Yeah. Well, actually I would say that this has been a process that I've [00:07:00] been cultivating for maybe a decade now. About a year and a half ago, I really went all out, but Um, yeah, I remember I've kind of fluctuated throughout my life where I have too much fun things going on like I'm I was in a choir and I was playing basketball and I was doing all this stuff, you know, five six years ago um, and Yeah, so part of it was this piece around The work I'm trying to do in the world is hard and I am not going to do it if I only get to do hard things.
And Also, community and relationships are so central in my life and my own like personal value system that I just want to find whatever way I can to, to center that and to, and to be more systematic about it specifically, because it's like, I can do all those things, but I actually want to make sure they're [00:08:00] reoccurring, that like they're nurturing something larger, whether that's community or relationships, et cetera.
But I'll say, you know, a year and a half ago, I was going through a really hard time. The pandemic was rough for me as it was for everybody. And in particular, I just felt making friends in my 30s is so hard. It's like pulling teeth. And it's like people will be up for being friends with you, but they may not want to make it like as central of a part of their lives as I do, or they already have those friendships in their lives.
And I sort of went through a bunch of transitions in my late 20s. And so, um, I didn't have that sort of solid base of community and friend family, like I like to have. And, and I just found like, I wanted to do more fun things and people weren't available. you know what? You know, I'm just gonna take [00:09:00] this into my own hands.
I had a really hard summer. I just felt really sad and depressed and lonely and isolated all the time. And so come September I was like, Enough is enough. Um, part of it was I started, I did like this one off exercise class and I just realized, wow, this is so fundamental to my mental health and I need to make it an everyday thing.
Then I was like, oh, I knew about the Latin dance community in Ottawa for a long time and I thought, I know that by doing this, not only am I going to move my body and listen to music that I love and meet lots of people, but I'm going to become part of a community and grow my own community. And so that was part of it.
And then with the band, I just decided You know, I had thought about a year prior, you know, singing is so important to me. I just feel like deeply, deeply connected to myself and to other people. And it's a spiritual experience for me. And I, it was my childhood [00:10:00] dream to become a singer. So I just, you know, come New Year's resolution that year in 2022.
in January, I was like, I'm going to take singing more seriously. And I didn't know what that looked like and what it meant, but, um, it led me to find this band to join. And then I, I was like, I'm really big on building systems. So I was like, I want to do this on a reoccurring way with other people to keep me accountable to practicing it.
And for me, That's what keeps me in. It's the building of community and relationships around a hobby or around anything in my life that helps make it sustainable and something that I stick to. So, yeah, I guess that's sort of the happenings at the time that inspired me to really make a commitment and carve out that time.
Yeah,
Meghan: much in what you just shared these little golden nuggets and gems and I I think a lot of things that other people [00:11:00] can relate to, especially like making friends when you're older, so hard. And even just like what those friendships can look like sometimes, right? Because sometimes we can get into, I think, I don't know if this has been your experience, I, I think though for a lot of people, like, it can just be that like, oh, well, we're going to catch up over a coffee or those sorts of things.
And it's almost like, um, that those friendships can aren't always spaces where there is creative exploration and, and like the joy. It's more of just catching up and supporting, which is important, but, but also this like life giving, playful, joyful part of life gets sort of lost and the friendships can, for some people, end up being like one more thing to schedule, you know?
And so I feel like that's something So relatable. But what I love most about what you shared is [00:12:00] just how much it showcases how well you know yourself andyou know, what you said about, like, I know I'm someone who needs systems and a little bit of structure and almost get the sense this like routine and this community that you're interacting with.
on a regular basis rather than just going to like a one off workshop or a one off thing, um, it's just you know what was going to be deeply supportive to you and you gave that to yourself.
Rita: that's exactly right. And, and the piece around, you know, catching up with friends over coffee, I do that too. And, um, I think when I was dating, I realized I actually don't want to meet people for dinner or coffee. Like I can do that with so many people. And I want to kind of see how people are in the realm of doing something creative or something that involves joy or fun.
So I kind of like, Took that into my friendship world a bit and and the other piece is that you know for me, this is something that I need all the time Like I want to be out in the world. [00:13:00] I want to be learning new things I want to be having fun in different ways And the nice thing about joining a community where that's kind of what brings everyone together Is that even outside of say if you meet someone in dance, they're up for doing all sorts of other fun things because It's not the crowd who you know sits home and watches netflix all week and I've been there and I've done that and nothing against that but i'm just like I don't want to do that and neither do those folks So so that that's been really interesting and the piece around the systems and the Yeah, exactly.
I just think part of it is like, it's just a lot of effort to schedule something all the time. So I'd rather just something be in my calendar. It's happening this time every week. Or, you know, in the, in the case of the dance community, there's dance events in Ottawa every single night of the week. So, and you don't even need to go with anybody.
So you don't have to have any other friends who are interested in that. You just show up and you make friends there. So that's been really nurturing for me too.[00:14:00]
Meghan: Yeah, yeah, I recently started dancing again myself after many, many years, um, in December, uh, I started taking tap classes for the first time and then have been adding slowly, but I think sometimes people think like if you, and of course, I want to validate this might be the experience at some places, but I think in a lot of places, if you're going to a dance class, there's other people there who are looking to meet people as well.
Like my experience has been just that everyone has been so friendly and welcoming and I showed up not knowing at all what I was doing and even I was at tap class last night. And there were a few new people and everyone is welcoming them. And like, like it isn't, um, I think sometimes we, we build it up in our head you know, how hard it's going to be to start something new.
And don't get me wrong, like for me, especially like I'm a shy introverted personality, like I was definitely [00:15:00] feeling the nerves the first time I went to the dance class. Like I really was, um, but those nerves quite quickly dissipated.
Rita: Yeah, I think that's the other piece. It's um, you know, one of the things that I wanted to do was just get comfortable with doing something new and sucking at something. So,
Meghan: exactly.
Rita: it's hard, but, and I do think that most people recognize, like, everybody had to start somewhere, so there is that more openness and welcoming vibe that you get, and people are really friendly and supportive for the most part, so that's been really nice for me too.
Yeah.
Meghan: the, just like the sucking at something or just like the playing and learning something just for fun, not to like, not like I have no dreams of becoming a professional dancer. Like, you know, maybe, maybe it happens, but like that's not in the plan. But it's, it's like the, the pure fun and, and joy and even [00:16:00] like sense of, um, like there's a,
A celebration and a proudness when I do get something right that was like challenging before and it's, it's, it's been building my capacity in all sorts of other ways.
Rita: Yeah, exactly. It grows your resilience and it, and then it also fills your cup so that you can do harder things in other places because you just, you're feeling so nourished and so full.
Meghan: let's talk about that because I know you mentioned,
the fact that in your work, there's a lot of doing hard things.
I think a lot of the time when life feels full, we think about like what we need to take away.
Rather than what we could add in to really like bolster us and make us feel like we have that capacity and that resilience.
I'd love to talk a little bit more about how really caring for yourself and making space for the joy and the [00:17:00] play has supported you
Rita: Well, I guess I'll say a couple of things. One is that I have done a lot of work and I haven't, I have built and have a system that kind of supports me with, The piece around like having hard feelings come up about hard things that are happening. So that is sort of something that a lot of people don't know about my life, but I have this practice that I do several times a week to just help release hard feelings and offload and reevaluate and shift perspectives when I'm feeling hopeless or down or etc.
So that is part of the systems that I've built and have in place. And so when, When that is what's called for, I have that. And then the other piece is when you were talking about, you know, bringing more things in as opposed to cutting things out when things are feeling hard or you're burnt out or etc.
It reminds me of, um, for a while I tried to [00:18:00] do this thing where I said I'm gonna eat eight cups of vegetables every day.
Meghan: Mm. Mm.
Rita: you know, I had different health goals and mostly I didn't really want to be eating sugar or all these things that I felt kind of addicted to that I knew my body wasn't doing well with.
But just eating eight cups of vegetables a day just made me, like it pushed out the things that I didn't want by having more of the things that I didn't want. And it sort of nurtured me that way, so that's sort of like the physical analogy to having that joy and those, you know, If I'm feeling like crap, I know that I have a dance class that night and I always leave the dance class feeling thrilled and connected and energized.
And so, um, that's a piece of it. And the other piece is, you know, doing these hobbies and it's been a year and a half now and since I joined the dance community in particular, I've met a bunch of friends who are now like my closest people [00:19:00] and I have pretty regular contact with, so just like having that Those friendships that are, you know, have grown beyond doing fun activities together.
Um, but also the fun activities is always a part of it, has been really nourishing. Um, I have a partner now who I met through dance and that's been really lovely and joyful and he's such a grounding force in my life in so many ways, including that he's just really up for fun, adventure, lightness, levity.
I think a lot of people that I would meet in general, you know, in the work that I do, like we can, we tend to be sort of bogged down in sort of the trenches and the hard work. And so I wanted to kind of find people who are trying to actively balance that out. In response to, to what you're saying, I would say, there's just, you know, if, if ever something is hard, [00:20:00] I have something light and fun and joyful and that reminds me of hope and what's good in my day, in my life, in the world, and I feel like that has been so nourishing and life giving for me and, um, it keeps my spirits up, it keeps my, um, hopes high, and it keeps me able to have a, a positive perspective of the world and what I'm trying to do, um, while I'm also doing hard things and seeing hard things all the time.
Meghan: I love the perspective that you bring to this. And, and I mean, I've shared on the podcast before a little bit about how, with my background being so much in like nervous system education and, and work and just like the way in which. Actually those, those moments of like joyful creativity are absolutely essential to [00:21:00] our own ability to move through things like stress and overwhelm.
Um, and I, and I love the way that you have expressed this in your own experience and voice. And I, I feel like one of the things that is shining through so strong is, is connection. Like connection with, with self. I know you mentioned before the fact singing for you was this like deeply spiritual experience.
So it's like, how do I have more of that and make this a priority in my life as well as connection with others. And gosh, I was at a, um, A workshop this week, um, hosted by Desiree Attaway on friendship and freedom. And like a huge theme of the workshop was just how many of us are struggling with feelings of friendship and connection and community post pandemic and [00:22:00] how essential that is for our ability to.
Imagine futures that are more just and liberatory and, um, I feel like there's a lot of us who are still kind of stuck inside a little bit in many ways. And I, what I hear from you is that you recognize that and have taken those courageous steps to start to shift that.
Rita: Yeah, and I love what you said about, you know, for me, the world that I'm trying to build is one where everybody is treated well and properly supported to live their best life and To me, connection is sort of the thing that's going to shift all of that, right? Like, we felt truly connected with people all over.
We wouldn't be able to [00:23:00] harm or exploit or oppress. Um, and, you know, I always say relationships are my methodology of doing anything. You know, any goal I have, any project I want to complete, I'm always looking at leading into relationships as the way to accomplish that. And part of that for me is, I just don't really think that I can function almost at all if I don't have, close connections in my life.
And there have been periods of time where I've had some close connections, but they weren't that evident and they weren't the ways that I wanted them to look. And And I really struggled, and I just, I think we would all do better if we're like truly connected and I actually think one of the goals of oppressive systems is to disconnect us from each [00:24:00] other.
Meghan: Yes.
Rita: It's a goal, it's also a byproduct, et cetera, you know, um, so I just, I see friendships and connections and bridge building and relationship building as a liberatory practice.
Meghan: Yes.
Rita: I don't think that anything we try to do without centering relationships is going to go far.
Meghan: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And. I, I feel like there's such a shift. I've been feeling and it's been a huge conversation for me and my partner over the last little while is just like especially post pandemic and post, um, because if you're a regular listener of the podcast you know that I've been on this journey the last few years of non epileptic seizures and complex post traumatic stress disorder and there was Like a part when I was in the belly of that fire where I, I really was isolating myself.
And so it's almost been like this re [00:25:00] emergence, but just, we've been having a lot of conversations about just how vital it feels to have more of that, um, like relational and collective care. And the way in which just everything is just, I've been so hyper individualized in sort of our dominant ways of thinking about care, which of course has to do with capitalism and all sorts of things, but just like the way in which it just feels like the, it just feels essential.
I think you might've used that word too, like it feels like it is, is absolutely essential to be. Imagining new ways of like being together and not just being together, but like deeply supporting one another, not just the people who are, you know, in our, our household or our immediate environment. But, and I think that that worked to [00:26:00] circle back to something you said before, like, of course there, there can be heavy conversations with that, but I think that it's through the joy and the fun and the creativity that we also open up to new possibilities and that.
That's where some of like the deepest connection can happen.
Rita: Yeah, and I really feel that, you know, when I'm dancing, for example, there's a playfulness and Yeah, creativity that I get to delve into and it's a way to communicate with another person without using any words. There's something that happens where you're just like, in each other's humanness suddenly, and that piece of creativity has really helped me.
I think in general, you know, singing and dancing in particular, most of us when we're toddlers or babies or whatever, we're [00:27:00] dancing, we're singing. Like, that's just so profoundly human. And I think those things get caught up in systems where then we have to like, be really quote, good at them. Or it's like, no, like, using our voices in melodic ways and moving our bodies to music is so human.
You know, there is a quote, right way to do it. But that's only because we've
Meghan: Beside of that.
Rita: Yeah, we decided that. And so, that's, it's really like, you're getting to do one of the most human things with someone you've never met before, maybe, and it opens up this part of your brain that maybe you don't get to access very often.
So that's been really nice. Um, yeah, and I completely agree that, that, that creativity space, is so core in being able to bridge certain kinds of connections that you might not be able to [00:28:00] do in other spaces.
Meghan: Well, I love what you just said too, about just the humanness. And the fact, you know, when we are kids, we use our voices and we're in our bodies. And I mean, I think those are two of the things I hear most frequently is people who are struggling with what their voice is or using their voice or sharing their voice, whether it's with.
Others are even acknowledging the voice that is inside of them, um, and people who are struggling with disembodiment and feeling like they don't know the needs of their body. They don't feel connected to their body. And the way in which, you know, it's like these types of really natural things when we're kids can actually, you know, be the vehicle to help bring us back into a little bit more alignment with ourselves.
I mean, that's certainly been my experience, um, as I've been playing lately with dance and picking up [00:29:00] my guitar after 10 years and, um, you know, uh, writing, but it's, it's this rediscovery of a part of myself. Would you say that that has been something you've experienced too?
Rita: 100 percent I think, you know, there's a part of me that's been walking through life all these years with just like a floating head and talking like I have a body and dancing just kind of It helps you have a new relationship to movement and to your body and it makes you feel just more It it neutralizes any kind of relationship you have with your body that's not necessarily been the easiest.
I think that's really helpful. And the other pieces with singing and using my voice, you know, I noticed one of the times I had a show, um, out in Kanata back in October, I was going through a hard time and, and then at my [00:30:00] show, I just have this like, you know, those moments in the movies where everything freezes and like, it's free.
And I just had this like, thought, wow, like I, I am just singing. I am, this is so empowering to be using my voice, making music, making other people dance and have fun. And there was just something about like, It's calling you into taking the spotlight and to, you know, we talked a little bit before recording around what are these experiences that don't leave you the option of feeling small and powerless. And I think, you know, obviously for some people, and in some cases dancing or singing might kind of put you in the place of insecurity, but for me they just. Don't and actually as I'm saying that I'm remembering, you know I've done so much work on my confidence over the last few years and [00:31:00] imposter syndrome and this that the other thing and Something happened last year where there were a kind of bunch of things happening at once.
But one thing I realized was dancing and taking on dancing was the last frontier to overcoming some kind of confidence You know, I don't think I'm technically speaking that great of a dancer, but when I go on the dance floor, I just have confidence. And people are like, wow, how long have you been dancing?
And I'm like a year and a half. They're like, you don't look like you've been dancing a year and a half. And I'm like, you know what? I'm It's confidence. That's kind of the differentiator. So that's been, I didn't expect that because I've been sort of job hunting for a little bit now, and I went through this process of interviews that [00:32:00] maybe a year ago would have totally shook my confidence.
And to my surprise, like, I just was so confident in my skills and abilities. And when something would surface that I'm like, oh, I don't know that or I don't know enough about that instead\ of feeling insecure and scared about it. I was curious and interested. I'm like, yeah I don't know that but I'm excited to know that and I you know if somebody if I met somebody who seemed to know a lot of things or be really great at things that I wanted to be good at in the past.
I might be like, oh, this is hard to be around this person 'cause it makes me just put a spotlight on my own deficiencies. But now it's like, Ooh, I wanna get to be around this person because they're awesome and I'm gonna get to learn from them. And I really, really think that the last. that made that click into place was doing these creative things, putting myself out there, meeting people and [00:33:00] soaking in the confidence that it brought me that now I can go out into the professional space and be able to just be unwavering, and here's what I can do, and here's a value that I bring.
No, I don't know XYZ things, but I'm excited to learn, and I know that I can do it, you know? So I didn't expect that, and that's been really liberating and empowering to notice.
Meghan: Thanks for sharing that with us. I love these like unexpected gifts that can come from things that, I mean, that's always my experience. I feel like there's always the things I expect and the things that I never could have predicted. Um, and I love, love you sharing that. And, and it, I can just, I can just imagine that confidence that you're describing that you're bringing and.
And what feels like a real rootedness in who you are, like a real groundedness in your abilities, your values, your skills, your [00:34:00] desire to learn, um, and just how powerful that sounds.
Rita: Yeah, I'm, I'm sitting with that. You know, the other piece that I'm thinking about based on what you said earlier too is um, Oh, you asked me,what inspired you to make that post on LinkedIn, and I was talking to a mentor after I joined the dance community, so probably about a year and a half ago, a year.
And, um, as a queer person, I've noticed, and I, I can tell this with all of us, you know, I'll go into a space, and especially if it's like, Outside of a bubble of people who think in certain progressive terms or doing certain work or, you know, five years ago I only knew queer people in my life and so I was in a bit of a bubble.
But um, I was just thinking about this feeling that I had when I first started dancing that I was marginal and I was kind of on the sidelines and you know that makes [00:35:00] sense because you're new. And a mentor of mine sort of challenged me and said, What would it look like to make yourself central, you know, and that's not to say like take up all the space but if every person had that in their mind, like centering yourself in your life or in your community, that would look differently.
so I took that on and I did become, you know, I ended up doing a lot of things in the dance community that I didn't know I was going to do. And I got to know a lot of people and people know me well and respect me. And then through that. I realized that in my career circles, you know, I'm confident and I'm meeting people, but there's a way that I don't put myself out there in the same way that I do in dance or in my personal life.
And that, you know, I won't necessarily raise my hand to speak or at a meeting filled with other people that are in my fields, I'll just kind of take on a more quiet role and that's totally fine, but I know that that's [00:36:00] not. You know, especially when there's something that I want to offer or say. And so part of that post on LinkedIn was You know what, I'm gonna apply what I did in the dance world to my career life.
Like, what does it look like to be more out there, be more central in my career community? And that I also didn't expect. So here's this thing that I, I've started to do for purposes of joy and connection. And it's given me way more than I could have imagined, including like a new strategy for how to Break out of limiting beliefs that I have about myself or how the world views me and into you know, what would happen if I just spoke up more or You know put myself out there more or said hey, I have something to offer in this space where I've normally been taking a back seat, so [00:37:00] that's new for me and I'm exploring that but that was a lesson that I learned directly out of you This thing that I did to intentionally cultivate joy that then gave me more confidence, more of a network, more of a social support system, which helps me do harder things, and I haven't really talked about that, but I really see, like, hey, I'm trying to do big and hard things in the world, and part of that is building my team. of people who love and support me, who will challenge me when I'm wrong, and who will have my back when someone comes for me or a system comes for me. Um, but I, I feel like I just learned so much through that realm that now I'm trying to more fearlessly and fiercely bring into my career world.
Meghan: I have the biggest smile hearing you say like to fearlessly and fiercely bring in and that question that you offered of like, what would it look like if I centered myself? [00:38:00] What I almost hear And underneath that is like, what would it look like if I centered my whole self? Like, really, like, like, all of me, all of my gifts, all of, like, who I am at my core.
And I feel like that is just like so important. Such a delicious question for people to sit with, like, what would it look like if you centered yourself? Um, and what would it look like, it brings us back to this, this question of like, if you centered some of the things in your life that are the ones that let you connect to yourself and to others.
This has been such an uplifting conversation filled with possibility. I always love, um, Well, I love, like you said, being around people who are doing things that, that, you know, feel alive and spark my curiosity, and I hope that this conversation, if you're listening, just like, has the wheels [00:39:00] turning in your head and is inspiring you to think about things.
That you might want to be exploring, reconnecting with, like, things that feel playful and creative. Rita, as we wrap our way to the end of the conversation, is there anything else on your heart that you want to share?
Rita: The one thing that came up was talking this through with you has made me sort of have new language or framing to what I'm trying to do in the world and I really think that the core of it is trying to teach people and bring people into a way of um, interdependence. Like that connection piece that what does it actually look like practically speaking to not do things by ourselves.
in this take on things that are impossible to take on by yourself or [00:40:00] um and that and the other piece is like keeping that sort of building a discipline of hope and joy and and having those things be together like interdependence, community connection, relationships, joy, levity, fun, And, and how do we put that together?
And actually that they can't not be together. So, yeah, I guess that was the sort of final new thought that I'm just dropping at the end of the convo. But, um, yeah, that's something that's really speaking to me right now. So thanks for giving me the opportunity to put that together.
Meghan: Thank you for being here and just like hearing you on the enmeshment between those two things, the interrelationship, the interdependency, and the way in which, um, like I truly do believe it with my whole heart that there is an essential ness to like [00:41:00] carving out those spaces for joyful connection and, and creativity.
And that, you know, So much of like the generative work can happen from that place and what I love too that you've shared that I just think is so powerful is just, um, I think sometimes we like systematize so much of our lives, but I love that there's like a playful way that you've systematized the fun and joy to make sure that that's included too.
It's not just like left to if it happens, it's going to happen. Cause I feel like people are like, well, I can't plan fun or, you know, but It's been prioritized in a way to make sure that it is happening in a way that is deeply supportive to you as a whole human and to the work that you're trying to do in this world.
Rita: Yeah, and I think that's just the piece. It's don't leave it to chance. Build it in as part of your needs and non negotiables. I learned to do that. [00:42:00] I just. If I leave it to chance, sometimes it doesn't happen. If it doesn't happen, I'm not functioning at my best. So, and I'm just not having fun and I don't really want to go through life not having fun.
Meghan: no, me neither. Me neither. Well, thank you. There's been so much wisdom that you've shared today. Thank you so much for being here.
Rita: Thanks so much, Megan. I really appreciate you wanting to hear more about this topic in particular. So I loved it.
Thank you so much for joining us today for this really impactful conversation. I know that I found it really inspiring and just really validating. I love, love, love talking to other people who are making an intentional effort to create time and space for those things that bring connection and joy and creativity. It just like fills me right up in the best way possible. I'd love to know if you had a takeaway from today's episode. [00:43:00] And because we are coming up on episode 100 of With Heart and Wonder if there's any like special moments or takeaways or favorite episodes that you've had over the last almost a hundred episodes.
I would love to hear from you. You can send an email. hello@meganjohnston.com or you can send me a DM on Instagram @meghanljohnston. Until next time, keep living With Heart and Wonder.